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Dungeons & Dra.. Astrid's Parlor Women and Minorities in Games 3
Women and Minorities in Games 3
7 hours ago  ::  Sep 10, 2009 - 12:23AM #1 Report Post
Posts: 216

OK, so there was a previous thread, Women and Minorities in Games that was locked.  Then there was another thread to follow up on the topic, but that has mysteriously disappeared without explanation.

First of all, I'd like to try to include here some of the useful content that was deleted in the other thread -- such as recommendations of non-Eurocentric fantasy resources.  There is the Carl Brandon Society resources page and wiki with information on fantasy and sci-fi by writers of color. There was also some good discussion about Charles Saunders' Imaro and adapting that setting to RPGs.

There was also good discussion of Asian-themed adventures, and which ones were more interesting to people of Asian descent than Oriental Adventures (along with the problems of OA).  Perhaps I'll try to reconstruct more of this later.  Anyone else have good, on-topic material they remember or have saved?

Regarding threads...  I don't mind political commentary personally, but if it is contrary to the Code of Conduct then the posts by the people who violate the code should be deleted, not the entire thread including many on-topic posts.  I'm hoping this thread can stay -- it would be really disturbing if WotC made a habit of locking or deleting discussion of non-white heroes.

7 hours ago  ::  Sep 10, 2009 - 12:35AM #2 Report Post
Posts: 3483

I actually think the entire theme of the dominant demographic being ignorant or even in denial of the problems of the minority is a really important social discussion and deserves serious thought if one really wishes to develop the empathy to identify with minority groups one isn't a part of. That's why I really enjoyed the link in the first post of the original topic. I even brought it up to show parts of in my indentity construction class.

I recommend the writings of Tim Wise to those interested in such topics.

4 hours ago  ::  Sep 10, 2009 - 4:09AM #3 Report Post
Posts: 96

As to the previous forum on this topic, I recall that shortly before it was closed, one of the regulars claimed that "diversity and multiculturalism were destroying the fabric of this country."

I asked this individual to clarify his position on this, I can only assume, due to the thread deletion, that he obliged me.

2 hours ago  ::  Sep 10, 2009 - 5:54AM #4 Report Post
Posts: 1172

Sep 10, 2009 -- 3:23AM, Jhkim wrote:


 -- it would be really disturbing if WotC made a habit of locking or deleting discussion of non-white heroes.



Is that really what you think they did/ are doing?

You seem to have some kind of persecution or victim complex.


They closed the thread because things where getting heated and peoples feelings were about to get hurt.

By even having a thread/section for "women and minorities" is itself racist and exclusive.

I also find that non-whites are more racist and divisive than whites... in my experience.

No... We don't play WotC games anymore.
2 hours ago  ::  Sep 10, 2009 - 6:05AM #5 Report Post
Posts: 1597

Sep 10, 2009 -- 8:54AM, The_hated wrote:

By even having a thread/section for "women and minorities" is itself racist and exclusive.

Why? My male fellow students have their own group because they're a minority, which I think is quite common in the most female dominated studies. Actually, the very fact that males are a minority on the universities is considered quite an issue here, and I haven't seen anyone claiming it's sexism (well, part of it, like a suggestion to lower the demands for male medicine students was labelled unfair by many, but the actual issue of raising the issue wasn't).

I've also heard quite a lot about whites in places like South Africa and Zimbabwe, because there are problems there hat mainly affect whites. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I've also heard quite a lot about white Americans and American males.

1 hour ago  ::  Sep 10, 2009 - 6:25AM #6 Report Post
Posts: 1172

Having any "special" places for any "race" excludes others and makes the group think they are so different as to warrant a special place of their own.

All it does is add to, and brings to the front, all the  "differences" (percieved or real)...


instead of actually trying to make everybody feel the same.


This is a site for RPGers... that's it.

To call out further differences and to break RPGers down into various groups further divides us...

No... We don't play WotC games anymore.
18 minutes ago  ::  Sep 10, 2009 - 7:31AM #7 Report Post
Posts: 8785


The reason the thread was obliterated was because it veered into political discussion and there were increasing cases of posters sniping at each other.  While the posters involved were familiar with each other and their style and probably took nothing too personally, their posts were reported - likely tagged with the 'p' word - and the mods took action.  It had absolutely nothing to do with any content beyond that which violated the CoC.  'Non-white heroes' are a-ok to discuss and the implication that this could have been the reason that the thread was annihilated is somewhat disturbing (that that possibility was even a consideration) and also wholly inaccurate.

That said, this thread is also a CoC violation.  Without express permission, it is against the CoC to open a thread that uses the same title and discusses the same topic as a thread that was locked/deleted.  The second version of Women and Minorities was opened legally after a member lobbied successfully for a second chance.  That chance was blown and I am not aware of any third opportunity given (if someone else is, please make it known).  I'm sure you've already seen why this is the standard practice.  People carry the fight to the new thread.  It's an unfortunate policy that anything that proves to push too many members' buttons is pretty much a forbidden topic, but them's the breaks. 

I thought your OP (barring the odd accusation) to be different enough, IMO, to be ok.  The thing is, you used the same title and therefore put a target on the sucker.  There's plenty of interesting stuff to discuss and some good did come from the previous incarnations.  The topic, though, may simply be something that some members are incapable of discussing rationally and that means it's doomed to be crushed under the polished boots of our overlor ... moderators. 

In other words, do not be surprised to see this thread disappear.  It's a CoC violation in and of itself that will likely invite many more.  And please try not to read anything beyond that if it does, indeed, vanish.  It's simply unfair and could give the wrong impression of how things work to people less familiar with the site than others.  Oh, and it's slightly offensive, too.

Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

So sayeth the OTTer ...