From lizzard@bookmaniac.net Fri Sep 26 00:39:42 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:44:33 -0400 (EDT) From: lizzard@bookmaniac.net To: John H. Kim Subject: minor things "I realize there are many traditions which differ from these" (maybe here say such as plays, oral storytelling etc) will attempt to diagram the differences of interaction (the differences _of_ interaction sounds odd. ) Further, I will outline two responses for what RPGs are in light of this. (needs rewriting. ) "The understanding which I present of traditional narrative is simplistic in a number of ways. " Cut this sentence completely and just put the phrase "while oversimplified" in the middle of the next sentence. " Traditional narrative has of an author " eliminate 'of' "Story is the imaginary set of elements (characters and setting) and sequence of events." Hmmm. rephrase it? Here I am not sure what you mean. ------------------------- Liz Henry lizzard@bookmaniac.net From lizzard@bookmaniac.net Fri Sep 26 00:40:20 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:32:56 -0400 (EDT) From: lizzard@bookmaniac.net To: John H. Kim Subject: more Figure 1: Story as transmitted in traditional media i think when you say "simplistic" you should probably insterad say "over-simplified" actually i think you could just lose this: This is simplistic in many ways, given the variety of narrative forms. However, I think it is important to understand this simple, traditional model first "A mental construct within the mind of imaginary events occuring." here, 'within the mind of imaginary events occurring' is the phrase that sticks together. i forget what you call this but you WANT 'within the mind' to be modifying A mental construct. Instead it sticks to the other part. oops. I think you could just remove the words 'within the mind' because you have already said mental construct. ------------------------- Liz Henry lizzard@bookmaniac.net From lizzard@bookmaniac.net Fri Sep 26 15:37:13 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:48:51 -0400 (EDT) From: lizzard@bookmaniac.net To: John H. Kim Subject: more nits " However, more often the rules and background are learned by the participants and guide play through them." unclear referent of 'them' rewrite sentence to be not passive voice ie "particpants' should be the subject of the sentence "Naively, it is considered good art if" I think take out naively. Commonly, sometimes, many people... etc. " to vividly and clearly express the story" split infinitive I like your numbered points very much, especially 5 and 6 about perceived story. point 4 makes me have a lot of questions about the ways visual access is different from hearing or reading I guess I mean pictures vs. words. they seem so different to me! But I think not to you. Must think abotu this... "(an arbitrary but common number) " I think you could leave this out. "particants" typo I am so happy when you point out the 2 possible answers to what the discourse is! that is much clearer than all the stuff I was saying in my paper !!! (still you should reference me somewhere if only to say at the end, "when i wrote this paper i had been thinking of stuff from the Martin book, liz's paper and discussion and forge discussions" 8-) part of what i was trying to do was to say point 2, discourse includes all elements of play. It is also your 2nd 'point 1", collaborative storytelling. Therefore this shows us something interesting about the nature of 'story' and 'storytelling', ie, I think the nature of story needs redefining. We can see the discursive world of the Babylon 5 tv series, or that of The Knights of the Dinner Table or the novels of Charles Dickens, as a discourse or system like a roleplayhing game in many ways. I guess here I disagree with you that point 1a leads to point 1b. "only the shared play = collab. storytelling" and "include all elements of play = immersive experience". Hmm. that is not to say you shouldn't make the distinction. as you say you need some basis. then i will come and write ba ck and argue with that basis, which will be fun. 9-) ------------------------- Liz Henry lizzard@bookmaniac.net